108 vs 110 lobe separation 108 vs 110 lobe separation

A cam 112LSA with 4 degrees advance puts the intake centerline at 108 degrees. by Kdub Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:05 pm, Post Because during the lower units oil change, you can go through the issue that the lower plug, Read More Yamaha Lower Unit Drain Plug Size [Explained Everything]Continue, Among the crucial parts of a vehicle ignition system is the ignition coil, also called a spark coil. Test 1 was easy. BUT, 114 will have more vacuum at idle, which will work better with some fuelinjection. 1966 Toyota Landcruiserunder construction. To reiterate another point, I realize that wider LSAs tend to broaden the power band, but for a car I would like to bracket race a bit, as well as enjoy on the street, I was told that a narrower LSA will help the car accelerate at a faster rate. The piston and cylinder damage possibility is pretty low at 110 LSA. But to choose the perfect cam, all of that information needs understanding. This table will create a map in your head, and I bet it will make your understanding crystal clear. Pinning the tail on the perfect cam can certainly be a difficult task. It provides a spark plug with the high voltage needed for combustion. The other thing is that you need to tune your ignition advance to maximize your performance. L'auteur prsente une nouvelle contribution de floristique nord-africaine consacre la flore du massif du Rif et des rgions du nord du Maroc, dans le cadre gographique prdfini par le Catalogue des Plantes vasculaires du Nord du Maroc de Valds et al. Part Number: HRS-CL120325-08. This comparison highlights that the 106 LSA is a good performer in a few mechanical aspects than the 110 LSA. A lower efficient compression rate leads to a higher fuel consumption rate by your engine to produce higher power. As usual, Marc (aka Master) is correct. A Pro Stock engine builder may prefer a wide LSA to help keep the power from breaking traction tOo early. 2.1.3 Transponder reply modes (air-to-ground) 2.1.3.1 Transponders shall respond to Mode A interrogations in accordance with the provisions of 3.1.1.7.12.1 and to Mode C interrogations in accordance . In this segment, I am going to compare those two lobe separation angles based on a couple of mechanical factors. Anybody here run a 108 LSA? Camshaft: Hydraulic Roller, Comp Cam custom grind (ADV Duration 281-287,@ .050 230-236, lift 622I & 625E w/1.6 rockers.) All three terms are similar, as they all relate to the relationship between the centerline of the Intake lobe and the centerline of the Exhaust lobe. by farmer Mon May 12, 2003 3:14 pm, Post With a 108 degree lobe center, a cam will have a rougher idle and produce less vacuum due to more overlap. Hopefully It will do fine in my 2276 mostly drag bug. Tight lobe separations, such as 108 or shorter, will cause the peak torque to build earlier in the RPM range and peak-out in a short amount of . I don't know about 13 to one but I have seen 12 to one on a 350 chev in hot rod article, BUT the guy soft petals around on the street with no full throttle use and puts racing gas in at the track. The engine will have weak performance in the low-end range.A low vacuum can also cause the brake pedal to be quite difficult to press. Nitrous engines, which make plenty of power and torque, often run wide lobe separation angles to moderate cylinder pressures and temperatures. Lobe sepsration is an advanced description for overlap.If you take a cam on a 112,and grind it on a 108,you add more overlap,the time the valves are both open.Narrower lobe centers mean more low end and midrange torque,along with a peakier powerband,and a slightly rougher idle.Tradeoffs are sensitivity to octane ratings,total timing, and air fuel ratio.A lot to swallow I know,hope this helps you. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. I think that cam had 110 lobe sep. Im loking at a summit cam with close to the same lift and duration #s but 114 lobe sep. Unfortunately, good street manners are often at odds with performance, as wilder cam timing usually decreases idle and (low-speed) driveability. Anybody do any real testing on LSA in a 3.75 stroke small block chevy?I have always used 104-106 and was thinking about trying a 108 or 110 design.I know there is a lot of variables but just a general opinion from any experts.This is for motor only no nitrous.600-640 HP engine combos.Much appreciated! Topping the short-block was a set of Chevrolet Performance CNC LS3 heads from Gandrud Chevrolet. While a cam with a 108 lobe center will idle rougher. I would say 114-117* would be a normal 1960's stock cam range and 117* to 120* is more what we see on modern engines. Higher overlapping lets less oil fall through the oil inlet. by ANT Mon May 12, 2003 1:47 pm, Post So the wider LSA introduces a broader and therefore longer torque band.. We even treated them to some chamber work before installation. 110 LSA: On the other hand, 110 LSA is a wider LSA with almost no overlap. It made 472.4 lb-ft at peak, a 21.5lb-ft disparity from the 101 cam. 112 vs 114 lobe centers You cannot tell the differance in the two . A cam card with its myriad numbers, acronyms, and abbreviations is one red-pen stroke away from a failed math test. Everyone has a different idea of gentle.While its true that the duntov cam may seem rough in a 283 it is still a factory offering and they never go to radical on there profiles for street cars.If you want a rough idle, try a 283 with a .550'lift roller and 13.5 to 1 compression,THATS ROUGH. to use this representational knowledge to guide current and future action. The graph above compares intake valve closing points of the three cams used in the test. Average power was also down, but the engine pulled ahead of the 101 cam at 5,400 rpm, picking up 6.5 hp at peak. 110 LSA: But, contrarily, at 110 LSA, you dont have to face the problem of engine knocking. However, finding them might be challenging if you dont have any prior knowledge. The extra cubic inches will smooth out a rough idle in a 327. Yearh, I have been reading a lot about this issue. But nothing comes without a cost, and idle vacuum suffers as LSA shrinks. If the overlap phase occurs too early, it will create an overly rich condition in the exhaust port, severely decreasing the gas mileage. by Hoxviii Mon May 12, 2003 7:50 pm, Post Build your own custom newsletter with the content you love from EngineLabs, directly to your inbox, absolutely FREE! It is the average centerline between both lobes and expressed in degrees ranging from 95 on the extremely narrow/tight side to upward of 120 on the wide end. LS Exhaust Manifold Bolt Torque (Everything You Need To Know), Holley Power Valve Sizes: Everything There is to Know. But, after comparing these two LSA based on a few mechanical aspects, such as maximum Torque, RPM, powerband, oil consumption, and many more, you will find the 106 LSA with better performance output. you cannot just take a random change in a lobe separation angle and say 1 is better than the other. Depending on the engine combination, the opposite results can occur. . If identical and for a given displacement the 110 will give more power. by 3V Performance Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:38 pm, Post The tightest LSA (101) was worth 21.5 lb-ft of torque and a much broader powerbandat the cost of much lower idle vacuum, which would make it more temperamental in a street car. by SStrokerAce Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:38 pm, Post Its also critical that valve overlap is kept to a minimum as the induction system can create a suction that pulls water into the motor, adds Bolander. Lobe Separation Angle, or LSA, is the number of degrees that separate the peak lift points of the cam's intake and exhaust lobes. After swimming through the entire article, I hope you are now well aware of the 102 vs 110 lobe separation angle. Now its not shifting into 3rd and you are here. The first cam featured a wide 120-degree LSA, while cam number two narrowed the angle to 112 degrees. A 112-114 degree lobe center will have a better idle and produce more vacuum with less overlap. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Well, there can be different reasons for this problem. For your convenience, I am providing a comparison table to give you an overall idea about the comparison. You get a better idle, vacuum, and response from a 112o-114o lobe. If you compared these two cams side by side in identical engines, the first cam would actually have a slightly better idle and would produce slightly more peak power at upper RPM's. THis is a real generalization, but the weaker your heads, the more you will like the smaller centers ( 106-108) the better the heads, and the higher the compression, the more it will like the wider centers ( 112-114)everything else falls somewhere in the middle( 108-110) Once you get close with the cam centerlines, it wont make much differance if you change it up or down by 2 degrees. any input is appreciated guys, thanks. Nitrous engines, which make plenty of power and torque, often run wide lobe separation angles to moderate cylinder pressures and temperatures. Bad idea in my view. On the cranking compression test, Brul recorded 175 psi, a 10-psi drop from the outgoing 101 cam. JavaScript is disabled. hydraboost is the same as a vacuum brakebooster, only the booster is replaced by a unit that does the same but under hydraulic pressure. Ultimately, it makes the 110 LSA an oil-consuming LSA. Well, I saw that Erson makes some nice hydraulic rollers with 108 LSAs, and I know that tighter LSAs have more midrange, so I thought they might be worth a try. Pick the cam with the valve timing events that fit the engine best, forget about LSA, it is only a result of the events. The valve covers, valvetrain, intake manifold, harmonic balancer, front cover, timing set, and cam were yanked. Tests 2 and 3 meant dissecting the motor on the dyno to get the old cam out. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The Idles increasing vacuum improves the idle quality and the engines overall performance. Things like idle vacuum, fuel economy, and tuning all factor into picking the right cam. When boost or nitrous are introduced, and engine builders contemplate choices between single-, dual- or reverse-pattern camshafts then the discussion gets muchmore technical. its got a 3.73 posi and the Stock 4 speed with a very low 3.42 1st gear. The Crane has a smoother idle, broader power band, and . http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220, http://www.popularhotrodding.com/en6em_camshaft_specs/lobe_seperation_angle.html. When you don't have any overlap, you can't have any wave tuning. This cam also offered the highest torque output at 4,000 rpm with 522 lb-ft. Based on the peak numbers alone you might be tempted to grab the one with the tightest (108-degree) LSA, but there is more to a cam test than power. 108: 110: 112: 114 . JavaScript is disabled. I just bought a 86b Webcam with 112 lobe centers for my 2276. ( 2 ) Estimated Ship Date: Feb 23, 2023 (if ordered today) Drop Ship. I am pretty sure, right now, you find yourself in the middle of the rising debate of 106 vs 110 lobe separation angle. If you look at any given cam catalog, you will find that the majority of street-oriented cams fall in this range. so the power will come on a litter sooner with the 114, and fall off a little sooner? So, sit tight back and explore. A 112 LSA would be better if I had an automatic, but the engine builder (who has built many, many drag racing engines)told me I would have much faster acceleration with the 108, at the expense of a broader power band of course, but that 108 would not unduly penalize me for the street. Now that we have a basic understanding of lobe separation angle, we can put together a test to illustrate just what happens when you make changes to it. The engine has AFR heads, Crane rockers, a TCI balancer, a Scat Rotating assembly with Mahle pistons, an Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap intake, an MSD ignition, and an Aeromotive fuel system. 114LSA +4 puts the intake centerline at 110 degrees before top dead center. In reality, a cam with 220 at 0.050" and a lobe center angle of 112 will have the exact same mechanical overlap as a cam with 217 at 0.050" and a lobe center angle of 109. such as 290 @.050? 108 vs 112 lobe seperation. You can research your heads to find out where yours are, but honestly I don't think it will be worth the effort on a tow vehicle. Lobe seperation cant be seperated from duration,the 2 are connected.the old duntov cam had a lot less duration than many new cams so the valve overlap was not extreme and the engine ran with a gentle lope.Increase the duration by 20* and this cam would shake a 283 out of the car at idle,but then increase the lobe seperation by 4* and the motor will have a gentle lope again. LSA helps determine the cam's behavior; you can take a given set of lift and duration figures, change the LSA, and get cams with vastly different characteristics. Lucky for us, Brian Tooley Racing stepped up with a dual spring package that allowed us to safely run our 0.624-lift cam. However, a cam with 108 will only pull 12-16", which is not enough for power assisted accessories. It creates an unsteady manifold vacuum condition that, on a fuel-injected engine, confuses manifold air pressure (MAP) sensors, making it hard for them to regulate fueling. Come here to talk with others who like to drive fast. More than any other component, the cam profile determines things like idle quality, mileage, and overall driveability. But, you may find it quite shocking that the piston-to-valve clearances decreasing rate raises the chance of damaging the valve by the piston. It has been tried in the VW business earlier, but then they gave it up because of problems with too high temperatures around the exhaust valve, causing them them to break. That was all, and we have already reached the concluding point. In my opinion, the rougher the idle the better! 106 LSA: 106LSA results in a decrease in piston-to-valve clearance. The ported heads were capable of supporting over 700 hp, so we knew they would not be restrictive on our stroker. So, now you, Read More Chevy Transmission Wont Shift Into 3rd: Finding the Main CulpritContinue, While changing the oil on your boats lower unit, you may need to change the drain plug, too. not exactly true, Ive seen custom grinds that are on 108 lca, smooth idle, high vacuum an even able to run efi, usually on an off the shelf cam it is true. The 108-degree cam (blue lines) outperformed the other two, but idle quality suffered. Lobe separation angles, he continues, are influenced by the camshaft grind. It will sound lovely I'm sure. . There are General guidelines about the effects of LSA but it should not be the deciding factor in choosing a cam. Aluminum flywheel & pullies. Tests have shown that, for a given cam profile, a tighter (smaller) lobe center will produce more average horsepower and a quicker revving engine. Well get out of that stocker and build a hipo motor for your VW. 106 LSA: So, if I talk about the powerband at 106 LSA, the powerband is narrow. by Paul H Tue May 13, 2003 1:24 pm, Post Not a HUGE, but a significant difference between 110 and 112, but those are the trends. Equipped with the 120-degree (LSA) cam, the hybrid stroker produced 570 hp at 6,200 rpm and 535 lb-ft of torque at 5,200 rpm. We will also custom grind any of the above profiles with a custom lobe center, for an additional $20 dollars. The LSA, or lobe separation angle, is ground into the cam and cannot be changed. 110 degrees on the lobe separation angles. Retarding the camshaft (a higher intake lobe centerline number 108 vs. 104) will generally start the power band later in the RPM range and decrease the cylinder pressure. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Camshafts with a substantial overlapping tendency should not be used in vehicles driven on public streets. 110 LSA: On the contrary, if you look at the powerband at 110 LSA, the powerband is comparatively broader. by Mr. P. Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:36 pm, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited, General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track. 106 LSA: At this LSA, the car machine has to confront the reduction of idle vacuum rate quite often. I have seen a dyno test where an engine using identical duration and lift made more peak power with a 112 LSA than a 110 LSA. A cam with a 112 lobe center will pull approximately 16-20" of vacuum, which is good for power brakes. Post AquaTraction Vs SeaDek: Which One Is Better For you? How To Properly Replace Ignition CoilsContinue. Aug 20, 2006. The 112-degree cam (red lines) picked up much of the torque, but the big winner was the cam with the tightest lobe separation angle. Thanks again. Introduction. But, you may wonder knowing that a higher valve clearance rate reduces the chance of damaging the valve by the piston. Lobe separations gives lots of overlap and lobe centers just happens when the grinder decides how the peak of the lobe will arrive on a specific grind by their tooling. Our content is merely suggestive, not intended to use without proper safety precautions and advice. = Tight Below 104 Deg. You can modify the lobe center a little bit but not enough to change the actual overlap of the grind. 02 The 402-inch stroker short-block combined an aluminum LS2 block with a 4.000-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods. But for small-block Chevys (like the LS applications in this story), the LSA is ground into the cam. *If you do not have enough vacuum, you can in some cases install a vacuum canister or reservoir, which works by storing the peak vacuum in the reservoir. A wide lobe seperation is not always better than a narrow one, or vise versa. Tests have shown that, for a given cam profile, a tighter (smaller) lobe center will produce more average horsepower and a quicker revving engine. What Are The Wastegate Stuck Open Symptoms? 238/248 duration, 300/310 adv. Every spec is a road map to what the valves are doing, the most common of which are lift, duration, and lobe-separation angle (LSA)the latter needing the most explanation. The 110 is probably a better choice for a performance street engine. You cannot look at just the LCA without looking at other specs too. The #1 intake lobe centerline is usually between 100 The 112-degree cam produced peak numbers of 567 hp at 6,200 rpm and 540 lb-ft of torque while pumping out 511 lb-ft of torque at 4,000 rpm. What brand and what are the specs on your cam, 4-linked72? Well, If I am not mistaken, you must be looking for which angle has what impact on your engine or which would be the best. i think a little more torque will be good for my car.With the XE274 it was a little slugish until around 3000 rpms. The second cam would have a rougher idle, produce more torque and would rev quicker. by mrsmythe Mon May 12, 2003 11:15 am, Post Professionally ported & polished iron 4V head with titanium intake valves, stainless exhaust, titanium retainers & keepers & dual springs. Seeking 1/2" ID x 5/8" OD Black Exit Tubing for Radiator Overflow Reservoir. I will be running an Edelbrock Performer RPM, with a Quick Fuel 750cfm with a screw adjustable vacuum secondary; it's called the Pro-vac. For example, an oval-track small-block that needs to motivate the car off the turns quickly might have a narrow LSA of around 106 degrees, resulting in more overlap. After consulting with many experts, you are still in confusion between 106 and 110- lobe separation angles. The article was called "Separation of Power" and they tested 5 cams ranged from 106 to 114 LSA. It also depends on displacement, some guys will run a bigger cam and widen the LCA to give a better idle but in my opinion it kills power. . Thats just the way the customer wants to roll, and engine builders find its easy to deliver such a powerplant. Is it a hydraulic roller as well? by Marc Mon May 12, 2003 11:38 am, Post Another important measurement was the torque production at 4,000 rpm and this cam checked in with 484 lb-ft of torque. (You can find an instructional video of how to do just that on our Clay Smith Cams YouTube Channel;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57gfBu8uc6k&t=1s ). It's the scavenging effect of the high velocity exhaust gases rushing out that pulls the fresh fuel/air charge into the chamber.